[videolib] Section 108 Policy

[Miller, Erin]

I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if anyone has a policy document that you wouldn't mind sharing with me.

I'm especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for inhouse use only is still the norm.

Section 108 states that "Digital copies made under this provision cannot be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or archives." But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO includes our online presence so I'm trying to interpret this for today's reality.

Thank you,
Erin

Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries

[Howard Besser]

This is not a policy document per-se, but is a set of guidelines around
formulating a policy document. It does discuss the issue of what can
constitute "premises".

Section 108 Video guidelines is at
https://guides.nyu.edu/ld.php?content_id=24818036
This was part of the larger project, Video At Risk: Strategies for
Preserving Commercial Video Collections in Research Libraries
http://tisch.nyu.edu/cinema-studies/miap/research-outreach/research/video-at-risk.html

-howard

Post by Miller, Erin
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn't mind sharing with me.

I'm especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.

Section 108 states that "Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives." But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I'm trying to interpret this for today's
reality.

Thank you,
Erin

Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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--
._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.
Howard Besser, Professor and
Founding Director, Moving Image Archive and Preservation Program
NYU's Tisch School of the Arts
Cinema Studies Department
665 Broadway, room 612
New York, NY 10012
tel: [phone]
***@nyu.edu
http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/
http://www.nyu.edu/tisch/preservation/
TShirt Exhibit Talk:

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Yes Video at Risk has great info. Also please check out videotrust.org!!


Sarah E. McCleskey
Head of Resource And Collection Services
Hofstra University Library
________________________________
From: Howard Besser <***@nyu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 12:47:09 PM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [videolib] Section 108 Policy

EXTERNAL MESSAGE

This is not a policy document per-se, but is a set of guidelines around
formulating a policy document. It does discuss the issue of what can
constitute "premises".

Section 108 Video guidelines is at
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fguides.nyu.edu%2Fld.php%3Fcontent_id%3D24818036&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7Ce89c834ce916409f117a08d635e284f4%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636755644346450648&amp;sdata=MYLVrT6s5gtjE%2F1i6rQk7dNSonBKznQ5FIrJiGbAeIk%3D&amp;reserved=0
This was part of the larger project, Video At Risk: Strategies for
Preserving Commercial Video Collections in Research Libraries
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftisch.nyu.edu%2Fcinema-studies%2Fmiap%2Fresearch-outreach%2Fresearch%2Fvideo-at-risk.html&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7Ce89c834ce916409f117a08d635e284f4%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636755644346450648&amp;sdata=Oeh6h4On6u7kdEh1Rv2iGNoPodcakOJDPmFStntK3q0%3D&amp;reserved=0

-howard

Post by Miller, Erin
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn't mind sharing with me.

I'm especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.

Section 108 states that "Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives." But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I'm trying to interpret this for today's
reality.

Thank you,
Erin

Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries

--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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--
._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.
Howard Besser, Professor and
Founding Director, Moving Image Archive and Preservation Program
NYU's Tisch School of the Arts
Cinema Studies Department
665 Broadway, room 612
New York, NY 10012
tel: [phone]
***@nyu.edu
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbesser.tsoa.nyu.edu%2Fhoward%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7Ce89c834ce916409f117a08d635e284f4%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636755644346450648&amp;sdata=nQfkT6L7rzZbZQZcdRHK1fi8GGvtARDIh5Fjd8snYKc%3D&amp;reserved=0
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyu.edu%2Ftisch%2Fpreservation%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7Ce89c834ce916409f117a08d635e284f4%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636755644346450648&amp;sdata=hkQ1yWzqceRM%2FqDkT7HjOUFKLQRZ2DQPXsdaAJWg94I%3D&amp;reserved=0
TShirt Exhibit Talk: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FWqgtBVGUw2w&amp;data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7Ce89c834ce916409f117a08d635e284f4%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636755644346450648&amp;sdata=kC9xYChOGacUPlUms5uOiGrZh867Ajo2D2GfV1Q%2B3cA%3D&amp;reserved=0
**** CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Hofstra University. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. ****

[Bergman, Barbara J]

In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.

Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State University, Mankato | [phone] | ***@mnsu.edu

From: Miller, Erin <***@unt.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [videolib] Section 108 Policy

I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.

I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for inhouse use only is still the norm.

Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s reality.

Thank you,
Erin

Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/lists.berkeley.edu/group/videolib/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fa%2Flists.berkeley.edu%2Fgroup%2Fvideolib%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbarbara.bergman%40mnsu.edu%7C203727dd21264b0b5e8c08d635dae41c%7C0c0d13782eaf49c7afa98b40189a1b5c%7C0%7C0%7C636755611585157318&sdata=RdCTqxJrFp8wU4nljRcdLPDE1mWaIN2xcFtoQEFzOCg%3D&reserved=0>.

[Paige Flanagan]

I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the spirit of the law.


Paige



[Loading Image...]
Paige Flanagan
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu<http://www.hsc.edu/>
Pronouns: she, her & hers


________________________________
From: Bergman, Barbara J <***@mnsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy


In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.



Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State University, Mankato | [phone] | ***@mnsu.edu



From: Miller, Erin <***@unt.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: [videolib] Section 108 Policy



I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.



I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for inhouse use only is still the norm.



Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s reality.



Thank you,

Erin



Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries

--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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[Jessica Rosner]

I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the
argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any
license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that
putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from
Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if
you believe you can stream any film for a course?

Post by Paige Flanagan
I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various shades
of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the spirit of
the law.
Paige
*Paige Flanagan*
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu
*Pronouns: she, her & hers*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
*Subject:* [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy
In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management
system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.
Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [videolib] Section 108 Policy
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.
I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.
Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s
reality.
Thank you,
Erin
Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
---
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.
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
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issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
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[Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm)]

This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it wouldn’t fit 108).

Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]


From: Jessica Rosner <***@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "***@lists.berkeley.edu" <***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Date: Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
To: "***@lists.berkeley.edu" <***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy

I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if you believe you can stream any film for a course?

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 8:59 AM Paige Flanagan <***@hsc.edu<mailto:***@hsc.edu>> wrote:

I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the spirit of the law.



Paige




[http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]

Paige Flanagan

Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director

Hampden-Sydney College

Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943

[phone] • www.hsc.edu<http://www.hsc.edu/>

Pronouns: she, her & hers


________________________________
From: Bergman, Barbara J <***@mnsu.edu<mailto:***@mnsu.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy


In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.



Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State University, Mankato | [phone] | ***@mnsu.edu<mailto:***@mnsu.edu>



From: Miller, Erin <***@unt.edu<mailto:***@unt.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [videolib] Section 108 Policy



I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.



I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for inhouse use only is still the norm.



Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s reality.



Thank you,

Erin



Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries

--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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[Jessica Rosner]

Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a film.
Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply refuses to
allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK to stream a
film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is out of print
and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a student happens
to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at all but to use
in a library by patrons.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <

Post by Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm)
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it
wouldn’t fit 108).
Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]
*Date: *Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the
argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any
license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that
putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from
Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if
you believe you can stream any film for a course?
I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various shades
of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the spirit of
the law.
Paige
[image: http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]
*Paige Flanagan*
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu
*Pronouns: she, her & hers*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
*Subject:* [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy
In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management
system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.
Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [videolib] Section 108 Policy
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.
I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.
Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s
reality.
Thank you,
Erin
Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
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.
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control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
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[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Section 108 says the copy may not be made available to the public in that format outside the premises of the library.

The statue does not offer a definition for “the public” and also not of “the premises” so this part is subject to interpretation, and different institutions will have different levels of comfort with how this content is handled.

And yes, this is only for content where an unused replacement is not available.

From: Jessica Rosner [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:56 AM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy

EXTERNAL MESSAGE
Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a film. Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply refuses to allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK to stream a film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is out of print and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a student happens to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at all but to use in a library by patrons.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <***@email.arizona.edu<mailto:***@email.arizona.edu>> wrote:
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it wouldn’t fit 108).

Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]


From: Jessica Rosner <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>" <***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Date: Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
To: "***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>" <***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Subject: Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy

I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if you believe you can stream any film for a course?

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 8:59 AM Paige Flanagan <***@hsc.edu<mailto:***@hsc.edu>> wrote:

I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the spirit of the law.



Paige




[Image removed by sender. http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]

Paige Flanagan

Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director

Hampden-Sydney College

Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943

[phone] • www.hsc.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsc.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7C101ece50ceaa4557d03608d63836f62a%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636758206054559656&sdata=TsD7Sd3NCFaqwrqePddDacEGuiJIuajamcEprbDCYVk%3D&reserved=0>

Pronouns: she, her & hers


________________________________
From: Bergman, Barbara J <***@mnsu.edu<mailto:***@mnsu.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy


In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.



Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State University, Mankato | [phone] | ***@mnsu.edu<mailto:***@mnsu.edu>



From: Miller, Erin <***@unt.edu<mailto:***@unt.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [videolib] Section 108 Policy



I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.



I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for inhouse use only is still the norm.



Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s reality.



Thank you,

Erin



Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries

--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
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[Jessica Rosner]

wow you would have to twist like a pretzel to claim a students home on
break is the "premise" of a library. but hey I get it , no rights holder is
paying attention so nobody cares

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:02 PM Sarah E. McCleskey <

Post by Sarah E. McCleskey
Section 108 says the copy may not be made available to the public in that
format outside the premises of the library.
The statue does not offer a definition for “the public” and also not of
“the premises” so this part is subject to interpretation, and different
institutions will have different levels of comfort with how this content is
handled.
And yes, this is only for content where an unused replacement is not available.
*Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2018 11:56 AM
*Subject:* Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
EXTERNAL MESSAGE
Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a film.
Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply refuses to
allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK to stream a
film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is out of print
and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a student happens
to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at all but to use
in a library by patrons.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it
wouldn’t fit 108).
Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]
*Date: *Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the
argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any
license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that
putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from
Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if
you believe you can stream any film for a course?
I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various shades
of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the spirit of
the law.
Paige
[image: Image removed by sender.
http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]
*Paige Flanagan*
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsc.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7C101ece50ceaa4557d03608d63836f62a%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636758206054559656&sdata=TsD7Sd3NCFaqwrqePddDacEGuiJIuajamcEprbDCYVk%3D&reserved=0>
*Pronouns: she, her & hers*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
*Subject:* [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy
In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management
system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.
Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [videolib] Section 108 Policy
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.
I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.
Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s
reality.
Thank you,
Erin
Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
---
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.
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.
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[Gisele Genevieve Tanasse]

RE: "twisting like a pretzel to claim a students home on break is the
'premise' of a library"

Barb's initial email stipulated "password-protected access within your
course management system," which I take to mean as mediated by an
instructor. I don't believe most people chiming in are thinking this means
openly browsable by students in the catalog and therefore available while
students are on break-- but rather as assigned by an instructor for a
limited period of time as part of credit-bearing mediated instruction
through the learning management system...

Section 108 does require that the library or archive invoking 108 be open
to researchers not affiliated with the institution, so it is not a huge
leap (or fanciful pretzel making) to interpret "the public" to exclude
instructors and registered students enrolled in a class. In my experience,
this distinction between "public" and faculty/registered students is an
incredibly common one made across the country in regards to circulating
preservation DVDs to classes to avoid wear and tear on the damaged/*missing*
[:)] tape.

GisÚle Tanasse

Film & Media Services Librarian
Media Resources Center
University of California, Berkeley

For time-sensitive media inquiries, please phone the MRC at 510-642-8197
during business hours
More about our streaming resources
<http://guides.lib.berkeley.edu/video/streaming> | More about the Media
Resources Center
<http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/libraries/media-resources-center>
To request an appointment <https://calendly.com/tanasse> with GisÚle

510-643-8566 (email preferred)

Post by Jessica Rosner
wow you would have to twist like a pretzel to claim a students home on
break is the "premise" of a library. but hey I get it , no rights holder is
paying attention so nobody cares
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:02 PM Sarah E. McCleskey <

Post by Sarah E. McCleskey
Section 108 says the copy may not be made available to the public in that
format outside the premises of the library.
The statue does not offer a definition for “the public” and also not of
“the premises” so this part is subject to interpretation, and different
institutions will have different levels of comfort with how this content is
handled.
And yes, this is only for content where an unused replacement is not available.
*Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2018 11:56 AM
*Subject:* Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
EXTERNAL MESSAGE
Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a film.
Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply refuses to
allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK to stream a
film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is out of print
and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a student happens
to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at all but to use
in a library by patrons.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it
wouldn’t fit 108).
Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]
*Date: *Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the
argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any
license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that
putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from
Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if
you believe you can stream any film for a course?
I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various
shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the
spirit of the law.
Paige
[image: Image removed by sender.
http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]
*Paige Flanagan*
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsc.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7C101ece50ceaa4557d03608d63836f62a%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636758206054559656&sdata=TsD7Sd3NCFaqwrqePddDacEGuiJIuajamcEprbDCYVk%3D&reserved=0>
*Pronouns: she, her & hers*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
*Subject:* [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy
In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management
system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.
Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [videolib] Section 108 Policy
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.
I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.
Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s
reality.
Thank you,
Erin
Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
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control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
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control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
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libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
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control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
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control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
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control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
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[Jessica Rosner]

I fully understood it meant on a password protected system and assigned for
a course. My issue is that a studen'ts room , a Starbucks etc is not the
"premise' of a library
not the issue of who is the "public". You need rights to stream a film that
is not a "108" film so why wouldn't you need rights for one that is. I
would note that the vast majority of films that are not currently available
on DVD do have rights holders that are very easy to track down.. Rights
holders have many reasons for a film to be "out of print" especially access
to materials to make a proper copy and the cost, the idea that somehow it
is legally OK to stream a film you have digitized from inferior material
because the rights holder for any reason has not made it available is
disturbing on many levels, legal, moral and artistic.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:28 PM Gisele Genevieve Tanasse <

Post by Gisele Genevieve Tanasse
RE: "twisting like a pretzel to claim a students home on break is the
'premise' of a library"
Barb's initial email stipulated "password-protected access within your
course management system," which I take to mean as mediated by an
instructor. I don't believe most people chiming in are thinking this means
openly browsable by students in the catalog and therefore available while
students are on break-- but rather as assigned by an instructor for a
limited period of time as part of credit-bearing mediated instruction
through the learning management system...
Section 108 does require that the library or archive invoking 108 be open
to researchers not affiliated with the institution, so it is not a huge
leap (or fanciful pretzel making) to interpret "the public" to exclude
instructors and registered students enrolled in a class. In my experience,
this distinction between "public" and faculty/registered students is an
incredibly common one made across the country in regards to circulating
preservation DVDs to classes to avoid wear and tear on the damaged/
*missing* [:)] tape.
GisÚle Tanasse
Film & Media Services Librarian
Media Resources Center
University of California, Berkeley
For time-sensitive media inquiries, please phone the MRC at 510-642-8197
during business hours
More about our streaming resources
<http://guides.lib.berkeley.edu/video/streaming> | More about the Media
Resources Center
<http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/libraries/media-resources-center>
To request an appointment <https://calendly.com/tanasse> with GisÚle
510-643-8566 (email preferred)

Post by Jessica Rosner
wow you would have to twist like a pretzel to claim a students home on
break is the "premise" of a library. but hey I get it , no rights holder is
paying attention so nobody cares
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:02 PM Sarah E. McCleskey <

Post by Sarah E. McCleskey
Section 108 says the copy may not be made available to the public in
that format outside the premises of the library.
The statue does not offer a definition for “the public” and also not of
“the premises” so this part is subject to interpretation, and different
institutions will have different levels of comfort with how this content is
handled.
And yes, this is only for content where an unused replacement is not available.
*Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2018 11:56 AM
*Subject:* Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
EXTERNAL MESSAGE
Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a film.
Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply refuses to
allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK to stream a
film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is out of print
and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a student happens
to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at all but to use
in a library by patrons.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it
wouldn’t fit 108).
Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]
*Date: *Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand
the argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any
license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that
putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from
Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if
you believe you can stream any film for a course?
I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various
shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the
spirit of the law.
Paige
[image: Image removed by sender.
http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]
*Paige Flanagan*
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsc.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csarah.e.mccleskey%40hofstra.edu%7C101ece50ceaa4557d03608d63836f62a%7Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424%7C0%7C0%7C636758206054559656&sdata=TsD7Sd3NCFaqwrqePddDacEGuiJIuajamcEprbDCYVk%3D&reserved=0>
*Pronouns: she, her & hers*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
*Subject:* [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy
In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management
system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.
Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [videolib] Section 108 Policy
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.
I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.
Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s
reality.
Thank you,
Erin
Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
---
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.
--
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition, bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.
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[Christopher Lewis]

I disagree with the assumption that the vast majority of rights holders of VHS recordings are easy to track down. That would have to be proven. What we have found is that a substantial percentage of out-of-distribution VHS tapes are from out-of-business distributors or producers or the last distributor of record doesn't have knowledge of to whom a videotape's rights reverted. The copyright.gov<http://copyright.gov> registration database often comes up blank when searching these titles or the registrant is a company that no longer exists.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:43 PM Jessica Rosner <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
I fully understood it meant on a password protected system and assigned for a course. My issue is that a studen'ts room , a Starbucks etc is not the "premise' of a library
not the issue of who is the "public". You need rights to stream a film that is not a "108" film so why wouldn't you need rights for one that is. I would note that the vast majority of films that are not currently available on DVD do have rights holders that are very easy to track down.. Rights holders have many reasons for a film to be "out of print" especially access to materials to make a proper copy and the cost, the idea that somehow it is legally OK to stream a film you have digitized from inferior material because the rights holder for any reason has not made it available is disturbing on many levels, legal, moral and artistic.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:28 PM Gisele Genevieve Tanasse <***@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@library.berkeley.edu>> wrote:
RE: "twisting like a pretzel to claim a students home on break is the 'premise' of a library"

Barb's initial email stipulated "password-protected access within your course management system," which I take to mean as mediated by an instructor. I don't believe most people chiming in are thinking this means openly browsable by students in the catalog and therefore available while students are on break-- but rather as assigned by an instructor for a limited period of time as part of credit-bearing mediated instruction through the learning management system...

Section 108 does require that the library or archive invoking 108 be open to researchers not affiliated with the institution, so it is not a huge leap (or fanciful pretzel making) to interpret "the public" to exclude instructors and registered students enrolled in a class. In my experience, this distinction between "public" and faculty/registered students is an incredibly common one made across the country in regards to circulating preservation DVDs to classes to avoid wear and tear on the damaged/missing [:)] tape.

GisÚle Tanasse

Film & Media Services Librarian
Media Resources Center
University of California, Berkeley

For time-sensitive media inquiries, please phone the MRC at 510-642-8197 during business hours
More about our streaming resources<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__guides.lib.berkeley.edu_video_streaming&d=DwMFaQ&c=U0G0XJAMhEk_X0GAGzCL7Q&r=dQAk_Zd7lJV7OS64qDX600W6taJmsy_0tTv-MH58qLo&m=Kv2ezLusiYVarXKecOPGN6bh_dMUus8h87PKj4Kf5OA&s=6od0QVd2ALWcIfi4hgBAFfAHQBeT8KkWtibua2tUP_I&e=> | More about the Media Resources Center<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lib.berkeley.edu_libraries_media-2Dresources-2Dcenter&d=DwMFaQ&c=U0G0XJAMhEk_X0GAGzCL7Q&r=dQAk_Zd7lJV7OS64qDX600W6taJmsy_0tTv-MH58qLo&m=Kv2ezLusiYVarXKecOPGN6bh_dMUus8h87PKj4Kf5OA&s=2OC0DkoIp27gnIX75Xhehr9F-Cdxt4_j3EBwUeG5ul4&e=>
To request an appointment<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__calendly.com_tanasse&d=DwMFaQ&c=U0G0XJAMhEk_X0GAGzCL7Q&r=dQAk_Zd7lJV7OS64qDX600W6taJmsy_0tTv-MH58qLo&m=Kv2ezLusiYVarXKecOPGN6bh_dMUus8h87PKj4Kf5OA&s=f2v62H4rGrWLFNZaRw9ENEuu0RyiCoQWPaDGwp6e3kk&e=> with GisÚle

510-643-8566 (email preferred)
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On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 9:04 AM Jessica Rosner <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
wow you would have to twist like a pretzel to claim a students home on break is the "premise" of a library. but hey I get it , no rights holder is paying attention so nobody cares

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:02 PM Sarah E. McCleskey <***@hofstra.edu<mailto:***@hofstra.edu>> wrote:
Section 108 says the copy may not be made available to the public in that format outside the premises of the library.

The statue does not offer a definition for “the public” and also not of “the premises” so this part is subject to interpretation, and different institutions will have different levels of comfort with how this content is handled.

And yes, this is only for content where an unused replacement is not available.

From: Jessica Rosner [mailto:***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:56 AM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy

EXTERNAL MESSAGE
Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a film. Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply refuses to allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK to stream a film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is out of print and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a student happens to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at all but to use in a library by patrons.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <***@email.arizona.edu<mailto:***@email.arizona.edu>> wrote:
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it wouldn’t fit 108).

Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]


From: Jessica Rosner <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>" <***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Date: Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
To: "***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>" <***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Subject: Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy

I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if you believe you can stream any film for a course?

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 8:59 AM Paige Flanagan <***@hsc.edu<mailto:***@hsc.edu>> wrote:

I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the spirit of the law.



Paige




[Image removed by sender. http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]

Paige Flanagan

Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director

Hampden-Sydney College

Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943

[phone] • www.hsc.edu<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.hsc.edu-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257Csarah.e.mccleskey-2540hofstra.edu-257C101ece50ceaa4557d03608d63836f62a-257Ce32fc43d7c6246d9b49fcd53ba8d9424-257C0-257C0-257C636758206054559656-26sdata-3DTsD7Sd3NCFaqwrqePddDacEGuiJIuajamcEprbDCYVk-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=U0G0XJAMhEk_X0GAGzCL7Q&r=dQAk_Zd7lJV7OS64qDX600W6taJmsy_0tTv-MH58qLo&m=Kv2ezLusiYVarXKecOPGN6bh_dMUus8h87PKj4Kf5OA&s=67k2KFbe2jatajwdAgGO7gxvwKSHgvDYDRsVHMd38lw&e=>

Pronouns: she, her & hers


________________________________
From: Bergman, Barbara J <***@mnsu.edu<mailto:***@mnsu.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy


In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.



Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State University, Mankato | [phone] | ***@mnsu.edu<mailto:***@mnsu.edu>



From: Miller, Erin <***@unt.edu<mailto:***@unt.edu>>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
To: ***@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:***@lists.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [videolib] Section 108 Policy



I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.



I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for inhouse use only is still the norm.



Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s reality.



Thank you,

Erin



Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries

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[Jessica Rosner]

Well I admit my mindset is largely in feature films and I would say over
90% of those you can track down though it takes a little work. However it
seems sort of irrelevant to the current discussion as the argument being
made is merely that the title is not currently in print in DVD than one can
copy and then stream it for a class. Supporters as far as I can tell have
been very adamant that no attempt should be made to contact or find a
rights holder merely again that the film is not in print at a reasonable
price./

A few questions. Film A was released on VHS and is available for streaming
on a commercial service but rights holder does not sell streaming rights
for educational use. So OK to stream if you digitize a VHS you own for
preservation.

Film B was released on VHS but is out of print and not available for
streaming, it is owned by a major studio which has yet to release it for
DVD or streaming.

Film C was released on DVD but is out of print, rights holder is overseas
and is known not to allow streaming, this film did not have to be digitized
for preservation so stream or no?

What seems to be going on here is that if a film goes out of print ( as is
more and more likely as many go streaming only) why is there in essence a
special right to stream a film
that a rights holder may very specifically not want.

Post by Christopher Lewis
I disagree with the assumption that the vast majority of rights holders of
VHS recordings are easy to track down. That would have to be proven. What
we have found is that a substantial percentage of out-of-distribution VHS
tapes are from out-of-business distributors or producers or the last
distributor of record doesn't have knowledge of to whom a videotape's
rights reverted. The copyright.gov registration database often comes up
blank when searching these titles or the registrant is a company that no
longer exists.

Post by Jessica Rosner
I fully understood it meant on a password protected system and assigned
for a course. My issue is that a studen'ts room , a Starbucks etc is not
the "premise' of a library
not the issue of who is the "public". You need rights to stream a film
that is not a "108" film so why wouldn't you need rights for one that is. I
would note that the vast majority of films that are not currently available
on DVD do have rights holders that are very easy to track down.. Rights
holders have many reasons for a film to be "out of print" especially access
to materials to make a proper copy and the cost, the idea that somehow it
is legally OK to stream a film you have digitized from inferior material
because the rights holder for any reason has not made it available is
disturbing on many levels, legal, moral and artistic.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:28 PM Gisele Genevieve Tanasse <

Post by Gisele Genevieve Tanasse
RE: "twisting like a pretzel to claim a students home on break is the
'premise' of a library"
Barb's initial email stipulated "password-protected access within your
course management system," which I take to mean as mediated by an
instructor. I don't believe most people chiming in are thinking this means
openly browsable by students in the catalog and therefore available while
students are on break-- but rather as assigned by an instructor for a
limited period of time as part of credit-bearing mediated instruction
through the learning management system...
Section 108 does require that the library or archive invoking 108 be
open to researchers not affiliated with the institution, so it is not a
huge leap (or fanciful pretzel making) to interpret "the public" to exclude
instructors and registered students enrolled in a class. In my experience,
this distinction between "public" and faculty/registered students is an
incredibly common one made across the country in regards to circulating
preservation DVDs to classes to avoid wear and tear on the damaged/
*missing* [:)] tape.
GisÚle Tanasse
Film & Media Services Librarian
Media Resources Center
University of California, Berkeley
For time-sensitive media inquiries, please phone the MRC at 510-642-8197
during business hours
More about our streaming resources
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Post by Jessica Rosner
wow you would have to twist like a pretzel to claim a students home on
break is the "premise" of a library. but hey I get it , no rights holder is
paying attention so nobody cares
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:02 PM Sarah E. McCleskey <

Post by Sarah E. McCleskey
Section 108 says the copy may not be made available to the public in
that format outside the premises of the library.
The statue does not offer a definition for “the public” and also not
of “the premises” so this part is subject to interpretation, and different
institutions will have different levels of comfort with how this content is
handled.
And yes, this is only for content where an unused replacement is not available.
*Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2018 11:56 AM
*Subject:* Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
EXTERNAL MESSAGE
Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a
film. Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply
refuses to allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK
to stream a film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is
out of print and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a
student happens to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at
all but to use in a library by patrons.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it
wouldn’t fit 108).
Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]
*Date: *Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand
the argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any
license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that
putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from
Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if
you believe you can stream any film for a course?
I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various
shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the
spirit of the law.
Paige
[image: Image removed by sender.
http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]
*Paige Flanagan*
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu
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*Pronouns: she, her & hers*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
*Subject:* [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy
In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management
system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.
Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian |
Minnesota State University, Mankato | [phone] |
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [videolib] Section 108 Policy
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.
I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.
Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision
cannot be made available to the public outside the premises of the library
or archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s
reality.
Thank you,
Erin
Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
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[Bob Norris]

Here are my 2 cents.

The original question essentially was: Does the clause “Digital copies made
under this provision cannot be made available to the public outside the
premises of the library or archives.” preclude an online presence?

First to address public. Several people referred to non-public as a kind of
qualifying restriction and that instructors/students are not part of the
public. The statement does not say: to the public and outside the premises.
I think public is not a restriction but refers to the people accessing the
institution, for public libraries they are patrons and academic libraries
are instructors and students. The public can view on premises.

Second, premises. Others have noted premise is not defined. I think
password protected online access is reasonable because that is part of how
all libraries now disseminate content. It is part of the institution. If a
copy is not available for purchase then an institution should be able to
make a copy in the format of choice. [On a side note, if a producer doesn’t
want any streaming for some reason they would be wise to make it available
at a very high price, but still justifiable, to eliminate or limit
streaming preservation.] Gisele’s point that access should be within the
course management system is an important one. Viewing at a Starbucks for
pleasure is clearly not allowed per § 108(d)(1),(e)(1) “Libraries or
archives may make copies for users as long as they have no notice that the
copy will be used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or
research.”

However, my opinion is that there has to be restrictions on the CMS. By the
Copyright Office limiting use on premises and eliminating interlibrary
loans they are restricting access. By switching from VHS to classroom
streaming you are broadening access. In fact, the discussion document which
Denis referenced and I like to use for interpretation recommends “Model
Statutory Language” for a revision and clarification to 108: Copies in
digital formats not on physical media may be accessed by users remotely for
a limited time by one user at a time. This is a model Overdrive and others
use so it is possible.

Thanks to everyone for your concern about and respectful interpretation of
108.

Bob
Robert A. Norris
Managing Director
Film Ideas, Inc.
Phone: [phone]
Email: ***@filmideas.com
Web: FilmIdeas.com

Post by Gisele Genevieve Tanasse
RE: "twisting like a pretzel to claim a students home on break is the
'premise' of a library"
Barb's initial email stipulated "password-protected access within your
course management system," which I take to mean as mediated by an
instructor. I don't believe most people chiming in are thinking this means
openly browsable by students in the catalog and therefore available while
students are on break-- but rather as assigned by an instructor for a
limited period of time as part of credit-bearing mediated instruction
through the learning management system...
Section 108 does require that the library or archive invoking 108 be open
to researchers not affiliated with the institution, so it is not a huge
leap (or fanciful pretzel making) to interpret "the public" to exclude
instructors and registered students enrolled in a class. In my experience,
this distinction between "public" and faculty/registered students is an
incredibly common one made across the country in regards to circulating
preservation DVDs to classes to avoid wear and tear on the damaged/
*missing* [:)] tape.
GisÚle Tanasse
Film & Media Services Librarian
Media Resources Center
University of California, Berkeley
For time-sensitive media inquiries, please phone the MRC at 510-642-8197
during business hours
More about our streaming resources
<http://guides.lib.berkeley.edu/video/streaming> | More about the Media
Resources Center
<http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/libraries/media-resources-center>
To request an appointment <https://calendly.com/tanasse> with GisÚle
510-643-8566 (email preferred)

[Dennis Doros]

I would have to agree with Jessica on this. There is no gray area to this:

The current publication interpreting 108 by the LOC
https://www.copyright.gov/policy/section108/discussion-document.pdf

suggests to me that that streaming is desired by institutions, but is not
granted yet, and that it can affect commercial income for the artist.

Fondest regards,
Dennis Doros, Co-owner
*Milestone Film & Video • *PO Box 128 • Harrington Park, NJ 07640
Phone: [phone] • Email: ***@gmail.com • www.milestone.film

President, *Association of Moving Image Archivists*
***@amianet.org • www.amianet.org
*AMIA 2018 • 11/28 – 12/1 Portland, OR*

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Post by Jessica Rosner
Again I don't understand why 108 gives special rights to stream a film.
Would this also apply to a film where the rights holder simply refuses to
allow their film to stream? I find it nuts to say that it is OK to stream a
film without paying a rights holder simply because the film is out of print
and the leap from use on "premise" to streaming anywhere a student happens
to be is vast. 108 does not even refer to classroom use at all but to use
in a library by patrons.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm) <

Post by Brewer, Michael M - (brewerm)
This is for content that is not being actively commercialized (or it
wouldn’t fit 108).
Michael Brewer | Librarian
Interim Senior Information Resources Officer
University of Arizona Libraries, A349G | 1510 E. University Blvd.
P.O. Box 210055 | Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 | [phone]
*Date: *Monday, October 22, 2018 at 8:45 AM
*Subject: *Re: [videolib] Re: Section 108 Policy
I am not sure what this has to do with 108 exactly. If I understand the
argument correctly, ALL streaming for classes would be OK without any
license so why even bother
with paying rights or clearing any films as you seem to believe that
putting a film on a "closed" system where students watch it anywhere from
Starbucks to home on break is legal? So why bother every getting rights if
you believe you can stream any film for a course?
I agree with Barb Bergman's assessment. The law is painted various
shades of gray and thus I believe that this certainly falls within the
spirit of the law.
Paige
[image: http://web4.hsc.edu/sig/img/bannershieldgold.png]
*Paige Flanagan*
Academic Technology Librarian & Assistant
Library Director
Hampden-Sydney College
Bortz Library - Main Floor • PO Box 7
Hampden-Sydney, VA 23943
[phone] • www.hsc.edu
*Pronouns: she, her & hers*
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 5:15:55 PM
*Subject:* [videolib] RE: Section 108 Policy
In my opinion, password-protected access within your course management
system is the digital equivalent of not-public and on-premises.
Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
*Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [videolib] Section 108 Policy
I am rewriting the UNT Library Section 108 Policy and interested in if
anyone has a policy document that you wouldn’t mind sharing with me.
I’m especially interested in whether or not copies of damaged/lost/etc
videos are being hosted online (on an internal password-protected, limited
to university students and faculty platform) or if making DVD copies for
inhouse use only is still the norm.
Section 108 states that “Digital copies made under this provision cannot
be made available to the public outside the premises of the library or
archives.” But our library extends beyond a single location and IMO
includes our online presence so I’m trying to interpret this for today’s
reality.
Thank you,
Erin
Erin DeWitt Miller
Head, UNT Media & Discovery Park Libraries
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